Rob Bell Calls Chris Rosebrough a Dog

November 11, 2008

Segment 1 - Listener Email

Segment 2 - Liberal Terrorists Interrupt a Church Service in Michigan

Segment 3 - Rob Bell Calls Chris Rosebrough a Dog

---

You can email us at talkback@fightingforthefaith.com

Subscribe to this program

Comments

[Richard]

'does the bible say the greatest commandment is love? Was Rob loving his neighbor bye just showing up there. Yes. Is love what points people to Jesus? Yes. Did God, any where turn his back on those who worshiped other gods? NO.'

Uhm, Erica... the greatest commandment is indeed love the Lord your God, and people, yes... but is it really love to avoid risking being unpopular by sharing the Truth which leads to salvation, even though it will upset the listener but could lead them to eternal salvation? Is it showing goodwill to our Lord and Saviour if we do not clearly stand up for Him before people and witness for Him by mentioning His Name (which risks the wrath of people who disagree, often strongly?).

The consequences for these 'loved ones' is dire if they don't turn to Jesus Christ; and no the Lord has not turned His back, but... but... let's be honest there are times when He hammered those who rejected Him and followed pagan gods, and according to Revelation He will do so again.

Golden calf anyone? Are you arm-ag-gedon it?

Personally, for me (I speak as a man) the main concern is the public declaration wasn't apparently made by Rob before the unbelievers, and isn't by many, many Christian leaders when the opportunity arises. I can understand the reason why, which in my case is that I want to be liked, but that does not make it okay. I just pray the Rob, Chris and the rest of us have the courage to declare Jesus Christ as the only Way even when amongst those who are hostile to such narrow mindedness truth. It is surely for all of us a good job we are called to trust in our Lord and not in our own goodness or works!

Courage and strength, grace and peace, love and faith, to all who love God the Father and Jesus Christ in all love and sincerity. Amen.

[Erica]

To me love always wins. You can talk as much as you want but unless you love, and people know you care what results to do you get? Richard I don't know what you believe. I am not a huge a fan of walking up to someone and explaining Jesus and leading them into this magical prayer, and walking away. Yes, I use to do it this way. To this day, I wonder whatever happens to the people that said "my magic prayer". The Christian life is realizing you are a sinner in need of a Savior, confessing and believing. This realization should change your life forever. You will daily take up your cross, die to yourself and follow Jesus no matter what the cost. To me it is not a magic number of people I can save from "Hell" it is all about transforming lives and making them disciples of Jesus. Twelve men transformed this world forever because the shadowed Jesus and followed Him. Look at the life of Paul he constantly kept in contacted with his people. He sent them letters, discipled them he even sent people to them. What do we do? We think it is ok to lead someone into a prayer and walk away.
I think it easy to condemn others on what they should or should not have done when you have never been asked for a moment to walk in there shoes. As much as Chris tries to convince me that he knows what happen at the event. We all know he does not. He is not the Holy Spirit and He did not shadow Rob all day. I have never known Rob to be afraid to talk about Jesus or share the transforming power of Jesus. We do it each and every week with our kids in Sunday service, during communion it goes on and on. Rob simple believes that you love people and meet them were they are at in life and he shares the transforming power of Christ weekly. Rob is a teenage magnet.
Chris does not know what teenager Rob talked to in the hallway of this event. What was said at breakfast when he hugged and shook hands with other religious leaders. We simple don’t know. And whatever one says is slander, gossip, and foolish but some how you all can avoid those passages of scripture and some how justify your actions because it was not done the way you wanted it to be done. When in truth you have never talked to Rob, you have no idea what happen there. You all sound like good news reporters to me.
Sorry to cut this short but I actually have a meeting with the pagan Mars Hill staff that I have to attend. Have a great day!

[Richard]

Dear Erica, thanks for taking the time to respond, I appreciate it (I’m not being flippant, I mean it). What you say about love fits perfectly with 1 Corinthians 13, that what we do must be motivated by love or it is basically a waste of time, so you make a perfectly valid point. I also agree that saying a magical prayer is not what we should be encouraging, at least not in isolation; a person has to believe in their heart and confess with the mouth, both are necessary (which goes straight back to your point about love, someone must really mean it internally, and not just go through the motions). I would go further than most; my interpretation is that a person needs to continue to walk in trusting the Lord, that this trust should be both said and believed in the heart not as a one-off deal, but as a daily walk. I think Paul the Apostle was referring to this sort of attitude when he speaks of running the race. That isn’t works, it is faith, they aren’t the same thing. Again, I don’t see myself any different in my views than those you have expressed, praise God!

My own discomfort with what I heard of Rob’s message at the conference was precisely the apparent lack of confession that Jesus is Lord with his mouth on the platform before the unbelievers. Jesus said confess Me before man and I will confess you before My Father in Heaven, so I do wince when our leaders don’t do so. As you say, look at the life of Paul, he did do what you say but also was always, always, always, giving thanks to our God and Saviour with his mouth and his heart. In fact you couldn’t stop him doing so, even in prison! That is the point; I see this as a danger we all fall into - not confessing with our mouth clearly and boldly when we should.

Again I agree, it is not perhaps sufficient to pray for someone and then walk away, on the face of it. Having said that, decades ago I was born again at a Billy Graham crusade and a seed was planted which the Holy Spirit developed, the fruit of which has started to be shown only many years later. I was not discipled at all but looking back it didn’t matter - I did start to read the Bible and believe what it said, and prayed and God spoke to me. He still does, usually through his Word. Something supernatural happened that day, even if it didn’t necessarily fit with Lutheran, Calvinist, Catholic or whoever’s theology! I am now aware that I am growing in the faith, but to open up another can of worms that only happened significantly after the baptism of the Holy Spirit (or, if you’re a Calvinist reading this, the infilling the Holy Spirit if you prefer!).

Yes it is easy to condemn, but surely let us look at solutions where we can all agree: Do we all agree we should confess Jesus Christ both in our heart and with our mouth, including before those who may despise our God and Saviour?

You see if Rob had publicly done that, much of what his critics have said about the conference would be as dust. That is what makes me wince, because antichrist religious folk are happy to agree, smile and be loving to Christians up until the point you mention Jesus Christ is the only way to remove the sin barrier between God and Man. Yet that is both the problem but also the solution and the remedy. If people are sick, they need the medicine. Paul the Apostle spoke with boldness, as did the others.

But… Erica, I for one don’t get the impression you’re ‘of the devil’. You sound like a genuine Christian to me (but so does Chris and the rest of the guys at F4F, even if we all violently disagree with each other at times. Doctrine matters, of course, but surely we need experience of God AND knowledge of God).

1Co 1:3-21 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God always concerning you, for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus; that in everything ye were enriched in him, in all utterance and all knowledge; even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: so that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye be unreproveable in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, through whom ye were called into the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. Now I beseech you, brethren, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfected together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been signified unto me concerning you, my brethren, by them that are of the household of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I mean, that each one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos: and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized into the name of Paul?

Personally I wouldn’t single out Rob alone for special treatment, the trouble is in the Body of Christ MOST OF US have stopped confessing Christ like that; surely we need to stop compromising the Gospel and glorify the one true God and His Way. I would urge anyone to encourage to their pastor/minister to have that in mind.

1Co 1:18-21 For the word of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us who are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And the discernment of the discerning will I bring to nought. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For seeing that in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom knew not God, it was God's good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.

[Erica]

Richard,
I would absolutely one hundred percent agree with you that once you confess and believe you have to live it out every single day!! Rob has even talked about that before; once you become a believer the road is hard. There is nothing easy about becoming a Christian but you will find no greater joy.
You are right; if Jesus is Lord of your life then you share Him and His love with others. Richard I know people will bash me for this stance but I don't really care:
I personally don't believe at that event, getting up on stage, answering every question with religious ease would be a smart move. I personally believe Rob would have only gotten the mic once and would have been asked to leave or not given the mic again. If that happen what good would have done? His answer about forgiveness was brilliant!! He was able to share the power of Christ without saying His name. I use to do public speaking on a regular basis for the county that I lived in. The local crisis pregnancy center would schedule massive assemblies in local public schools and I was one of the speakers. I was told I was not allowed to mention God in my speeches. Did that keep me from going? Absolutely not!! I worked the message of Jesus into all my talks without every having to flat out give the gospel message. I never once refused the opportunity to speak because those teens gravitated to me, to my team. Who cares if I had boundaries on stage? I built relationships with those people and couple of them became a follow of Christ. One of the girls I picked up weekly from the local group home and brought her to church with me. Those two souls were worth all the hush hush I had to do about Jesus on a public stage. That is my point about Rob, we don't know what rules they had for him or what happen off air. If they tell you not to talk about Jesus on stage do you just not go? To me, that is foolishness, you are wasting an opportunity to live Christ to people. I believe that people who feel the only tool they have is by confessing Jesus with their mouth and preaching has some serious soul searching to do. The bible says our fruit will show if we are a follow of Jesus. How many of the fruits of the Spirit have to do with standing up and preaching at people? Now I believe like you said Paul did do it and faced imprisonment but that is not the only way Paul shared Christ. I wonder how many Christians like Chris miss opportunities to share Christ because it has to be their way or the highway. Do we not believe that living the fruit of the spirit to someone will make them see Jesus? Do we not believe that loving someone will not help them see Jesus? What about missionaries that go into foreign countries and they are not allowed to speak of Jesus in public places. Do we bring them home and condemn them for not taking advantage of EVERY opportunity? I have friends who are missionaries in China, India, Japan, Romania, Cuba, and Brazil. They all love on the people, a lot of them don't have the opportunity to stand on a street, or get on live TV and preach Christ. They respect those rules or they will be asked to leave the country but some how their love of those people bring them to Christ. When we go golfing or to concerts do we stop our golf game or concert so we take advantage of the opportunity to share Christ? To what degree do we sit back and condemn others when we are guilty of the same thing?

[Richard]

Hi Erica, again thanks for writing back. Your explanation has made it clear where you guys are coming from, and that has been helpful to increase my understanding of your position.

This is the problem: Jesus told His disciples to go out and preach the Kingdom, and if someone or some people won’t receive the Word, shake the dust from your shoes and move on to somewhere else! Paul spoke about Jesus Christ with complete boldness, Jesus Himself said do not deny Me before people (and He was speaking about speaking about Him). I could go on, there is so much scripture to back this up.

John Wesley was chucked out of even Christian churches for preaching Christ Jesus! Did he compromise the message? No, he just preached outside in the fields instead! He hasn’t been the only one, I can’t think of a single revival or reformation where the speakers have not spoken boldly of salvation through Christ alone. Why? Because people came to faith through hearing the message: Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

Romans 12:2 tells us not to be conformed to this world! So, if Rob had the mic taken off him, and was not asked to speak again for preaching Christ Jesus in all His glory well that would be great! Rejoice when you are persecuted for the faith, scripture teaches, and the Bible also states beware when all men think well of you (although it appears that none of us are in danger of that happening!).

You see I know our speakers compromise by not mentioning Jesus, and that is the problem. If a pastor in particular in his capacity as an ambassador for Christ was told he could not mention God or Jesus Christ then obviously a huge compromise is being demanded. In fact in Acts 16 Paul and Silas were told to shut up by the authorities or else… Did they? No, they refused but preached Christ Jesus boldly. They threw them in prison, did that stop them? No! They still preached (with their mouths, speaking words!).

Personally I speak as a preacher; if I were told I could not mention Jesus Christ than I could not accept an invitation to speak. I believe I have strong scriptural support for such a position, and sense that there is a big danger for the Church in denying Christ by our lips in public. Who has a right to separate us from our God? Really, would you never mention your husband as if you were ashamed of him? And yet we are the bride of Christ, ambassadors of the King Most High. Would an ambassador agree not to mention the country he represented or its leader? Of course not, and yet we fall into the trap of thinking it reasonable to agree not to dare mention Jesus Christ! And these are not made up examples, both the bride and ambassador analogy are New Testament examples.

Yes, two may come to Christ through the ‘hush, hush’ approach, but I wonder how many would come if they heard the truth, plain and simple. Yes I have seen people genuinely converted by hearing statements of the Truth. This approach is surely preferable simply because it is what God’s Word teaches as being preferable; we are to preach Christ and not base our actions upon results gained but on what God says do.

Yes, Galatians 5 does talk of the fruits of the Spirit but it is clearly assumed that we will edify each other by speaking of Jesus, it is not assumed anywhere that we shut up and don’t do so and then the fruits will speak for themselves without the listener understanding the source of these fruits.

Point well made about missionaries; but there are men of God in places like India and Iran who have been martyred for the faith for speaking the truth, and history speaks of numerous accounts, Rome being the obvious example. I agree however that in our weakness we need wisdom, but come on, Rob, you and I are hardly going to be torn apart by an angry mob in the US or UK are we for speaking out about Jesus? Oh, I guess the times are a changing… perhaps that’ll come one day, but we have it pretty good still!

When I play a game or go to a concert I am representing Christ in my person, but perhaps that is a little different to being invited to speak as a Christian and declining to mention Jesus Christ by name for fear of causing offence, don’t you think? Again, I don’t entirely disagree with you on this, as I’ve mentioned before, but the point remains that a Christian asked to speak as a Christian leader should surely have the freedom to preach Jesus by name, boldly and clearly, isn’t that point? Isn’t that obvious and to be expected of him by those who invite him to speak?

I won’t post again since we’ll just end up going around in circles on this one now, but once again thanks for taking time to explain your position, which you’ve done very clearly. We agree on so much that it would be a shame to end on a negative note, but just let me exhort you to preach the Gospel and proclaim Christ Jesus as THE Way, THE Truth, THE Life from the treetops and please, please don’t avoid doing it for fear of causing offence to the listener, I beg you! I’ve bothered with this not to condemn you but to encourage you to look at this and ponder on it, honestly!

Oh well, there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, for those who love Him and are called according His purpose! If your heart is right, and I believe it is, that’s the main point. I think we’re disagreeing strongly on tactics here and how we represent our great and wonderful God, Lord and Saviour!

I’m not trying to fall out with you, Erica, just ask you to consider this contrary view and take it to the Lord (as I am attempting to do with your words). May we all thus grow closer to Him, to His glory!

Blessings, in Christ, Richard.

[Mike]

So, I read all of these comments

And basically you all are saying nearly the same thing about tribalism and phil. 3, just from different perspectives. You're both right, I can't believe you emergent people haven't seen this by now. I can't believe you conservative people have been arguing this long about semantics.

Circumcision was a sign of the covenant God has with his people. It was not tribal. Paul was later decrying people that were making circumcision required for salvation - after Jesus had done all of our saving and redeeming work - which then caused it to become tribal, meaning, something that was required to be a part of the group. Some people may say "legalistic", but when it comes down to it these concepts are the same - a forced action to be accepted among peers.

No one here is saying that pre-jesus-in-flesh circumcision was not a covenant between God and his people

No one here is saying that post Jesus-in-flesh circumcision was a valid sign of the covenant between God and his people

On the other issues I have no comments, but on that, seriously, dozens of comments were necessary?

[Frank Marron]

Dear Chris,

I would be interested in your take on the novel "The Shack". One of my favorite Lutheran minister, Tom Baker of KFUO's Law&Gospelbroadcast, seems to believe it is a very good book, theologically speaking. Pastor Todd Wilken of IssuesEtc seems to believe the opposite based on comments made on his website. I personally think that since Jesus taught us to pray "Our Father...", it is inappropriate to think and depict God the Father as a Black woman, as in "The Shack". I understand God is spirit and truth, but I believe we can use our limited intellence in more appropriate ways than that noven did. I think the book is attempting to bepolitically correct and appeal to the modern mindset. Your thoughts would be appreciated.