Preaching About the Many Paths to God?

September 8, 2008

Segment 1- How do you bless a Motorcycle?

Segment 2- Must See Sermons.

Segment 3- Christians Suck.

Segment 4- Hybels Challenges Us to Refuse God Nothing

Segment 5- Preaching about "the many Paths to God?" by the Rev. Chuck Currie in Portland Oregon.

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Comments

[Rev. Chuck Currie]

Thank you for sending me your link. I found your review of my sermon to lack scholarship, to be mocking in tone, and filled with historical error. Your comments about other faiths were particularly arrogant and verged on being hateful. You parrot some evangelical scholars (though inconsistently and I suspect you wouldn’t actually be able to name any of them) but for the most part engage in proof-texting. In the end, however, you were simply juvenile in your thinking. I hope that in time God opens all our hearts so that dialogue such as this is no longer accepted practice among the followers of Jesus.

[Neil]

Thanks for addressing these things.

It is amusing and saddening to hear someone like the "Reverend" Chuck Currie speak as an alleged follower of Jesus. He disagrees with Jesus on virtually every significant issue.

Jesus said He was God, that He was the only way to salvation, that the Gospel should go to Gentiles AND Jews, that marriage is between a man and a woman, that murder is wrong (i.e., abortion, which kills an innocent human being), that we should give our money (I don't recall him teaching that we should vote to take other people's money and give it away at the point of a gun - e.g., taxes - and call it charity) and so much more. Chuck disagrees with all of those.

He says things like this, which no Christian should say:

"Are non-Christians doomed to the fires of hell for their lack of faith in Jesus? No. I can say that Jesus is the truth and the light and feel confident that I’m hearing God’s word. However, God is obviously bigger than human understanding and I feel confident that God speaks through many religious traditions. Christians have as much to learn from other faiths as we have to share."

How can someone read any of the Old or the New Testament and get the impression that God is a pluralist?

[Neil]

Just listened to the Podcast. Nice work!

I also addressed it here - http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2007/07/28/heretics-r-us/

"I found your review of my sermon to lack scholarship, to be mocking in tone, and filled with historical error."

Oh, the irony of Chuck saying that!

Keep in mind that he preached from one verse, and the whole point of his sermon was that the verse was wrong. He quoted Hindus, pointed to Gandhi, the Gospel of Thomas, etc. but dismisses the Gospel of John. It is basically New Age / Hindu teachings (just look in side yourself!).

He claims to know the mind of God by insisting that God speaks through many religions, but also says we shouldn't claim to know the mind of God.

Currie also ignores that there are at least 99 other NT passages pointing to Jesus' exclusivity, plus countless OT passages about there being only one way to God. He thinks John 14:6 is the only one. And he recently graduated from divinity school.

Yes, Chuck is the arrogant one here. He puts himself in the place of God and de-classifies some sins and makes up new ones. He is completely un-coachable, and makes the same lies over and over.

I wish he was the only false teacher out there. Sadly, Chuck is a leader in his denomination. It is just liberal politics masquerading as religion.

We have a term for people who hold the views that Currie holds and teaches: Non-Christian.

Keep up the good work!

[Bret]

Chucks upset because honest rebuking is being done without his control of deleting comments he doesnt like.

Next time he comes on this blog, please introduce the pot to the kettle.

[Patrick]

Excellent job on the "sermon" review, Chris. Regarding a couple of the issues that Chuck raised in the sermon about the dating and reliability of the gospels of John and Thomas, N.T. Wright offers some good thoughts on the issues at hand:

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/197/story_19743_1.html

However, I'm sure Chuck will dismiss him as some know-nothing kook.

I also find it entertaining that on Chuck's website, he labels Chris as a "right-wing bloger." Why is it that the proponents of the social gospel like Chuck insist on politics driving everything?

Patrick
www.theologyofomaha.com

[Neil]

"Why is it that the proponents of the social gospel like Chuck insist on politics driving everything?"

They tip their hands with comments like that. They are all about politics and use Christianity as a front, so they assume we are, too.

[Rec. Chuck Currie]

I'm glad you brought up NT Wright because I have read a good bit of his work and appreciate his on-going debates / dialogs with mainline scholars. Christians can disagree with each other on even fundamental topics and still be both respectful and gracious.

Wright recently said this when talking about Marcus Borg (a member of the Jesus Seminar and professor at Oregon State University):

“I have friends who I am quite sure are Christians who do not believe in the bodily resurrection,” he says carefully, citing another eminent scholar, American theologian Marcus Borg, co-author with Wright of The Meaning of Jesus: Two Visions."

“But the view I take of them - and they know this - is that they are very, very muddled. They would probably return the compliment."

“Marcus Borg really does not believe Jesus Christ was bodily raised from the dead. But I know Marcus well: he loves Jesus and believes in him passionately. The philosophical and cultural world he has lived in has made it very, very difficult for him to believe in the bodily resurrection."

“I actually think that’s a major problem and it affects most of whatever else he does, and I think that it means he has all sorts of flaws as a teacher, but I don’t want to say he isn’t a Christian."

So it is ironic that someone on this site would quote from Wright (perhaps reading some of his books instead of just one internet article might provide you with a fuller understanding of his views). It's ironic because the people on this site have been quick to question my Christianity (even going so far as to compare me to Satan). You've shown nothing - and I'm talking to the people who've left comments here and the person who made this odd little podcast - that exhibits Christ-like behavior.

With all due respect, you all sound a lot more like Anne Coulter than Dr. Wright and I think Dr. Wright would be embarrassed that any of you were pointing to his work as justification for your views.

[Neil]

"You've shown nothing - and I'm talking to the people who've left comments here and the person who made this odd little podcast - that exhibits Christ-like behavior."

I disagree. Jesus spent lots of time rebuking false teachers and false religious systems.

Ever read the Sermon on the Mount? Jesus was incredibly narrow minded and intolerant, criticizing their understanding of God, their prayer, their giving, their fasting and more.

He warned against false teachers. The New Testament is full of warnings of false teachers and how to identify them.

No one distorted your views the way you distort the views of others on your blog. We quote you in context, and this blog included your whole sermon. What you always do is make red herring and ad hominem attacks rather than sticking to the topic.

Jesus pointed to himself as Savior. Chuck points to wherever people want to go.

Chuck, do you send out "reverse missionaries" to countries where Christians are persecuted? After all, if all religions are valid paths to God as you insist, shouldn't we just tell people to go along with their local religion and avoid persecution? Wouldn't that be the truly loving thing to do?

No, Chuck, you are like Ann Coulter. No, wait, you are far worse. Read your own blog. Ann has a bite, but she gets her facts straight. You are viscious and uninformed as well. You were corrected multiple times about the foolishness of saying that Palin "slashed" funding to teen mothers, even though she approved a dramatic increase. If your outreach committee requests a 4-fold increase and you can only afford a 3-fold increase would they be fair in accusing you of slashing funding to the poor?

I've read the Wright/Borg book you mentioned. Wright is playing "nice," but if words mean anything then Marcus Borg and you are not Christians.

[Patrick]

Chuck dodged the issues that N.T. Wright raised about the gospels of John and Thomas almost as well as someone who is able to dodge the issue of John 14:6 while claiming that all paths lead to God. Oh wait...

[Neil]

Chuck is quite the dodger. He dodged Chris' challenge to debate the facts.

I put a link to some facts on a topic on Chuck's blog once and instead of addressing them he dismissed them because they were written by a bunch of white guys from the U.S. (he likes to imply that others are racist). Once I reminded Chuck that he's a white guy from the U.S. he moved on. Oddly, he doesn't like me posting at his site.

[Brian]

Clearly the conversation on this blog is about having different perspectives on Christianity. Anne Lamott gives a nice reminder to these kinds of conversations: "The opposite of faith is not doubt: It is certainty. It is madness. You can tell you have created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. The first holy truth about God is that people of true faith have always had to accept the mystery of God's identity and love and ways." And then there's Apostle Paul, who says we "see through a glass dimly" and "only in part." God is enigmatic.